NextGen Footwear: Legacy, Leadership & Looking Ahead

 What happens when the next generation returns to the family shoe store — not just to help, but to lead? In this episode, Pete Mohr is joined by Abba Carmichael (Abba Dabba’s), Jake Humphreys (Humphreys Bootery), and Keegan Keel (K&D Shoes) — three independent retailers shaping the future of footwear.

They get honest about:
 → Why they left the business — and what brought them back
 → Challenges of stepping into leadership while earning team trust
 → How they’re balancing legacy with innovation
 → Their vision for independent footwear retail in the next decade

If you’re part of a family-run business or considering a leadership handoff, this episode will give you clarity, encouragement, and ideas for how to do it right.

Connect with the Guests:
 → Abba Carmichael: abba@coolshoes.com | abbadabba.com
→ Jake Humphreys: jake.humphreys@humphreysbootery.com | humphreysbootery.com
→ Keegan Keel: keegan@kndsafetyshoes.com | kndshoes.com

Connect with Pete Mohr:
 → Website: simplifyingentrepreneurship.com
→ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/petemohr
→ Podcast: thefootwearretailer.com

The Footwear Alliance—a mastermind group for independent footwear retailers who want to accelerate growth, build long-term value, and lead with more clarity and confidence.

Enrollment is now open, a small group for just 6 to 10 retailers—to allow for deeper collaboration, real support, and tailored guidance.

Book a free call now at speaktopete.com
 

The Love It or Leave It tool helps you get clear on everything you’re doing… and figure out what you love, what you’re great at, and what it’s time to delegate or drop.

Watch the video and download the worksheet now at simplifyingentrepreneurship.com/loveit.

Clarity starts with knowing what’s yours to own—and what’s time to let go.

PLUS: Whenever you're ready, here are 3 ways I can help you move from the Operator’s seat to the Owner’s seat in your business:

1. Take the Value Builder Assessment to better understand the areas of your business that add the most value to your business - Click Here

2. Uncover your Kolbe. Whether just for you, or for your full team, better understand leadership strengths and ways you can advance your People - Click Here.

3. Listen my other podcast Business Owner Breakthrough podcast as well for quick tools and tips - Click Here

Transcript

0:00

Welcome back to another edition of the Foot Row retailer. And today I've never done this before. I'm excited to have three different people here on the episode today. We've got some great retailers, next gen retailers. You know what happens when the next gen steps back into the family shoe business. And today we're talking to three leaders who have done just that. They're reshaping what it means to run an independent footwear store in 2025. Lots of interesting stuff, lots of good conversations. I know them all personally and excited to have them here with you. You are going to learn some cool stuff on family business, family transfer, all sorts of things about what's happening here in the industry. And I have Abba Carmichael with me, Jake Humphries with me and Keegan Keel with me and Abba. Why don't you start off a little bit and just tell us who you are and your business. Sure. So Abba Carmichael, the daughter of Abba Dabba Janice Abernathy here in Atlanta, Georgia, currently a three door sit and fit Euro comfort retailer. My mom started it back in 75 out of a flea market and it slowly grew as she found this two strap sandal that she just thought was going to change the world. And we helped pioneer what is now far more commonly known as Birkenstock throughout the southeast and beyond. And it's still part of our bread and butter brand offerings. And yeah, I've, I've been involved on and off from wandering up the stairs and making it onto the sales floor and them having to tie a balloon on me so that they could track on our one single camera, you know, surveillance upstairs. They couldn't see me, but they could see the balloon go by the camera and oh, somebody go up there. Get Shareese. So I've been involved since then through many years of leaving the industry and going off and doing, living a lot of other lives to feeling the need and urge and desire and honor frankly to come back in and attempt to be a part of the family's business again in a different way. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully more integrated. I love it. And we'll dig into that as well as we go through introductions. We'll, we'll dig more into that. It's a great story. Keegan, why don't you give us a little bit about yourself, about your business. So I'm coming from K and D Shoes. We're pretty close to Abba's family, but about 20, 30 minutes east of Atlanta, kind of in the suburbs. Like her mother, my grandparents started our business. My Grandfather at the time was probably two decades into being a wholesale rep and had enjoyed a very successful career there. Ended up selling a lot of samples from the prior seasons out of the garage at the house when this occurred and kind of caused a big shift in our family. He was working for Kenneth Cole's father, who had about five different lines at the time. And he had heard that he was selling some samples in the garage and got a phone call one day and thought he was going to be in trouble for it, when in fact he said, I want you to take all the samples from all five of the lines and see if you can help us. We'll help you. It'll be a good mutual thing. So now grandma's got the garage full of samples and they're all size sevens. And she's trying to find everybody in our area that's a cute lady that wears a size 7. And that kind of grew into a first location that was a rental. And then in 94, they kind of went hard and built a 15,000 square foot building on the side of the interstate. Over the past 30 years, we've expanded that building to 30,000 square feet. We don't have any direct focus. We're a big building with a huge inventory. But we do kind of specialize now in athletics, like pretty much everybody is, and have a big safety footwear business as well. Awesome. Awesome. It's a great story. Another family business we have up in Pennsylvania. Jay Humphries, tell us a little bit about you and your business. Thanks for having me on, Pete. This is, this is exciting. So I'm Jake Humphries. Our business is called Humphreys Bootery. I'm a third generation retailer. My grandfather started as a children's bootery. That's where. Where the name comes from. In 1958, we're still working out of that same original location in a little Pennsylvania suburb. But yeah, since my dad took over the business, there's been a couple different iterations of, of what we do. He transitioned really, you know, into the Euro comfort like ABBA was talking about. Birkenstock is obviously a huge part of our business. And right around the turn of the millennium, he found this little brand called Ugg that transformed the business for our family and really become the Ugg destination of northeast Pennsylvania and a little beyond. And we've really done that and dug into that for the last, geez, 20 years now. And since coming in personally, about two months before the COVID shutdown. So my timing was absolutely perfect with minimal digital focus. So that was a fun puzzle when I first really joined the business in a real way other than stock boy duties in high school and through college. Again, we're going through another pivot and we almost missed that athletic boom, but we've just gotten in the game a little bit late, but we're here. And yeah, that's my focus on the future here. So yeah, that's my story. We hopped on the call here today. You were mentioning you got your first order of HOKA in and you're ready to roll with some stuff. So things are changing and I think that's one of the things with NextGen is that where are you seeing the future? There's a different lens on things and whether it's, whether it's the adoption of a point of sale system, because we've been through some of that too with some of the next gen program. And for those of you that are listening, that are unfamiliar with the NSRA's Next Gen program, all three of our guests here today are in the NSRA next gen program, which I'm happy to sort of help out with and convene on the coach side of things. And it's a really good community of getting next gen people that are involved in the family business to getting, talking and getting going through things and, you know, just understanding that there are other people out there that are going through the exact same thing and sharing some of those experiences. Whether we're talking about staff, whether we're talking about sort of accountability and how we're taking over the management structures, or whether we're talking about shares and when are the shares coming and how does that look and what are the implications on all these different things? Whether we're talking about process, you know, all the different things that involve here the next gen stuff is a really interesting thing. And one of the interesting thing that we put together this grouping was the fact that all three of these people have left their family business for a lengthy period of time and decided to come back. And I think that's a really interesting thing with the three of you. And abba, you had sort of said it in your intro, you know, I was gone for a long time. But what was the thing that pulled you back in? I have long said, if you had asked me from high school or college after that, hey, do you think that you'll ever get involved with your family's business? With Abba Dabbas, my routine staple answer was, I'd be an idiot if I didn't. And somewhere along my journey, the different Exposures to different opportunities and possibilities. I didn't feel that opinion didn't change that. I'd be an idiot if I didn't. I just realized that I could do other things. I don't know if my brain had totally understood that there were other options outside of what I had grown up in. And so I felt like I needed to have those experiences. What pulled me back in, I, as corny and cheesy as it sounds, it do feel it was some form of duty, I think. And not a duty to Abu Dhabbas specifically, but maybe to myself is how it has felt for a while before I kind of officially started to get full time, deeper and deeper. I had been on an on ramp since COVID especially of being more involved and more involved. And I think I eventually felt like I was getting to the point that there would be a tipping point. And then the universe just kind of gave me a little bit of a kick and it made it really clear. And sometimes I need that. Sometimes I need a good aha moment to say, all right, now or never. I've tried to live with as few regrets as humanly possible. And so this. I really don't want to be one of them. I can go and try and do this and maybe it doesn't work out, but I'll have tried and I will be able to sleep very well at night knowing that I tried, versus the opposite, which wouldn't eat me alive. But let's not have that. It's an option too. So even if it feels like the bigger struggle or the bigger sacrifice, why not take that, which I've also tried to live by? What's a little bit scarier? What's a little bit harder? Okay, take that job. Okay, take that volunteer opportunity. I've done a lot of work not getting paid just to have those, those opportunities in life. So why not? Why not this one too? Abba, you know, when you look at your time away, what do you think? You know, the lens that you have coming back into the business, some of those learnings that you had, because there's many probably people listening that are 2nd gen or whatever the case is, but they've never had the time away from their business. Maybe they started right in high school and they just never stopped. It's just been something they've always done. Being involved in the family business, from your sort of perspective, what was the best thing about being away from the family business? And you know, like when, when you think of it that way, what's. What would be an advantage to being away from the family business for a year, two years, five years, whatever the case is. Yeah, exposure. And I was gone for. For quite a while, ten plus that. To reframe it, it would be like saying, what is the benefit of getting exposed to arts and culture? Well, you can't quite quantify or qualify it. You just are exposed to all these different mindsets and systems and people. Exposure of people and how they operate and how different managers operate and influence you. I feel like I learned a lot about myself and how I am best managed or not managed due to good and bad managers that I had out in my other experiences and therefore and have. Have been wild above and beyond. Wildly blessed with the managers and supervisors that I've had and been able to really have them as mentors. And I hope to be able to take a percentage of what I learned and be able to apply that to whatever I. I do in the future. But certainly at Abu Dhabba's and yeah, so exposure, depending upon what you get from it, if it's in alignment with you and you're doing something interesting, you can't totally put a label on it. Yeah, it's interesting. You know, Keegan, when we think about your journey and you were gone from the business for quite a while, you owned other. At least one other business that I know of and maybe more, but sort of tell us about your journey to coming back in the business. Some of the things you did when you were out there that help you in the position that you're in today. Sure, there was a defining moment that brought me back into the business. It's part of life. But unfortunately was the unexpected death of my grandfather. He passed pretty quickly from cancer and it just left a gap in the organization that needed to be filled. And much like abba, I felt. And maybe slightly different than her explanation in a way, but I felt a pretty strong moral obligation. Like I've had a very good childhood, a very good life, largely in part due to the results of this business and our family's work towards achieving that. And I felt like it was my time to come back and kind of square up with all that. So in my time away out of college, started artist representation and apparel manufacturing company, which I learned a great deal from. I did that for almost 10 years. And a lot of strong contrast to retail, of course, but skill sets that I think transferred quite nicely in manufacturing. Every second matters. Teamwork is no compromise. You're always thinking about efficiency and the type of manufacturing we did, which was mostly women's Yoga, clothing and a few homegood items. But every single person in the business had to touch in one way or another that item before it got a shipping label put on it and headed out the door to the customer. So I think I really learned a very important skill set in that is just how to build a strong team. And like, what is the importance of culture in a company? I think if you don't have that, you don't have a map like where is this car going? No culture, no plan. But also just the business stuff too, like accounting and marketing and all the little gears that I've as I've gotten a little bit older in life, I'm really passionate about. Like how does this gear affect that gear? If we change this a little bit, what will it do to that? Like it's all cause and effect. Everything's related in business. So I find that most fascinating and probably what I'm the most passionate about with this family business is just the continuous development and improvement of all aspects. I love it. And you know, when we think and talk about next gen, let's just assume that there is somewhere between 20 and 25 years between gens in most cases. And the lens that the next gen has compared to the lens that the what we call now gen has is often different on what those levers are or gears as you put it. Keegan. You know, and there's so much conversation around that sort of stuff as part of taking over the accountabilities in the business. Not even the share side of things, but the accountabilities in the business and you know, so many different things. When, when you came back and you say, you know, I've learned all this stuff and all of these, you know, these kind of different things from my previous business and you had mentioned, you know, the cultural shifts and stuff like that give us one or two things that you got a little bit of pushback on. When you said I think we should really start doing something like this and how did that go and how did you work through it and that kind of stuff. Well, just to comment on this for a second, I think the big difference in my prior experience with my previous business and this is like it's a very, very different mentality of trying to start something which I started that business out of a garage and ended up with a several thousand square foot manufacturing facility and tons of equipment, whatever. But going from nothing to something is one thing. Taking a 30 year old healthy business that's established and the mentality shifts now it's not Nothing to something. It's good to great. And what do you do to take a good business and make it great? Ultimately, you have to change it. And I don't think change is a bad thing. I view change as development. And I came in young, energetic. I'm not like the smartest person on earth by any means, but tech savvy enough to get the job done and was like, you guys haven't updated this thing since we started it in the 90s. We're still running stuff on pen and paper and just dated POS system. There's a lot better tools out there for inventory management. So my task number one was rip the major organs out and replace them. And you can imagine I surely got some resistance to that. But we all agreed it was the right thing to do. I spearheaded it and pushed it through, and now all of those systems are updated, and we're running the business much more efficiently. Less stress, like, it's all positive. But to drive over that mountain, sometimes you do have to press the gas pedal down a little farther. That's a. That's a whole two or three episodes on their own right there. Right, Keegan? For sure. They'd probably be long down a rabbit hole. Yeah. Yeah. Jake, tell us your journey. How long were you away? What did you do? And why'd you come back? Yeah, so I have a little different story where my. My dad took over this, our business, when it was in a different phase. We'll say we had two locations at the time, and one was struggling. And we, you know, he. He got the. Had the hard talk where the bank said, you have until this date to hit this number or you don't have a business anymore. So he. He navigated through that when. When my brother and I were. We're pretty young. The best thing that. That I tell my parents almost daily is we. We never felt that growing up. And to this day, I don't know how, but I give him the credit that kept his composure through it all. So growing up into high school, I was always told, hey, you could do anything you want as long as it's not retail. That's hilarious. So many. Not because we had a bad business at the time, but we were living, breathing proof that it could be a struggle. And you get married to your business very, very fast, and the input versus the output, it could be, you know, outweighed. So, yeah, I really just never thought of it as being my. My career, you know, even though working. Working at the store throughout high school, I went to college locally, so you know, in between classes I was running, running stock walls. You know, I always like to say it's my favorite thing that we always hear. It's I was born in a shoebox and here I am. But yeah, I got my degree in accounting and just graduated college, got a position in public accounting in Baltimore, Maryland and decided, hey, what the heck, let's try somewhere new. And did that for a couple years and just found out it wasn't for me. Sitting behind the desk and you got a punch in the clock just didn't do it for me. So I decided to leave that field and I jumped into. I was very passionate at the time in the fitness industry. So I, I worked as a CrossFit coach for about five years. Towards the end of, of that stint, I started helping out dad because unfortunately we, we lost some, some staff due to illness. And you know, it was something I knew I was close and that's kind of pulled me back in, in a moment that I was almost, almost lost because I found out pretty quickly that the fitness industry wasn't for me either financially because that it even, even how much I've, I've seen my family work, I didn't see an end goal there. So yeah, I came back in to, to Humphreys Boudery and that, that ended up being like I said before, right before the COVID shut down. So that's, that's right about when I gave it the hundred percent, let's do this. And I have to give Covid its thanks because one, it transformed our business. It brought the local customer back wanting to shop local and I still hear it to this day. And it made me find my passion of what I was truly I think what I was put here to do because every conversation I have in this industry, it comes up and yeah, I can't see it a different way now looking back at it. But yeah, that time I spent away it more so taught me what, what I didn't want to do, what I didn't like. And thankfully it made me found, made me find, find what I am passionate about again. And you know, even though I wear a lot of hats in our business right now, I, I truly, I love it and couldn't see, couldn't see it going a different way at this point. Awesome. Awesome. I think, you know, wearing different multiple hats, that's a, that's an interesting thing, but there, there's so many different things when we come back into the family business. Lots of different ideas around people and authority and all, all the different pieces where where do I plug in? How do I work? And you know, flipping back to you, Haba, what did you find sort of the most challenging thing when you kind of came back into the business on a personal level or maybe even on a team level or maybe a, you know, a parent to kid level, whatever level sort of most resonates with you at this point in time? What, what do you think was, were some of the one, two or three most challenging things that you were like? I never really expected this, but it was the reality. I, I think I'm in it on a day to day still, which is proving my worth to everyone. The team who is incredible has, who has put blood, sweat and tears into the business for many years while I was away. I am trying to earn a seat at the table and wanting to show that I might be the daughter of the owners and founder, but I deeply care about this because of that upbringing. I have institutional knowledge and namesake and I care, I do genuinely care deeply and I, I love the business. I love, I love the overarching mission which is helping people. That is the through line to most of the work that I did outside of coming back is different versions of helping people or educating people. And this is very much that. This is education of body health through the feet and then how that then ripples all the way up potentially and I have a long way to go to consider myself truly knowledgeable about it. But I'm able to, I am able to help people already even at the knowledge point that I'm at, in part due to thanks to that institutional knowledge and in part thanks to ongoing training. But yeah, earning the seat at the table is something that I'm putting in the sweat equity is something that I'm trying very much to do and, and I hope that I'm succeeding. It's sometimes hard to tell because you have your good weeks and your bad weeks because we're all human and I, because I have been in and out of the business in different ways over the years and in those times haven't, haven't stuck with it, but the team who I work with now has. I think that I have proving that I'm here to stick around unless until otherwise notified of some larger, larger force. But yeah, for me it's been, it is earning the seat, earning the voice to be heard. And yeah, I hope that I'm working towards that. Awesome. Keegan, you had mentioned some stuff around culture and the variety of different things in your sort of last segment, but how do you balance honoring tradition with the Changes. Like how did you do that when you were navigating through some of those changes you were talking about and sort of still honoring some of the traditions because the business has been around a long time and stuff had happened and it still was successful. You mentioned the words good to great, you know, and how do you honor the goodness that has happened while still sort of balancing the fact that we still have improvements to make and things to do? I mean, there's some traditions in business, all three of our stores and yours as well, Pete. Like, customer service is the cornerstone of the whole building. Like everyone has to be treated like royalty when they walk through the door. But aside from these basic retailer things, I think that the real tradition is the success of the business itself. So how do you continue that? Well, you have to adapt and evolve and change. I think if you look at it through that perspective, change is a good thing. Tradition is a good thing. But time is real. Nothing's going to stay complacent and stagnant and healthy. So just got to keep the ball rolling. Kind of coming back to what Abbott was saying. Abbott was kind of saying, hey, you know, these people have been around a long time. I've been in and out these, these sort of things. But when, when we do come in as next gen, does anybody, and I'm asking all three of you and any of you have any sort of, oh, I never thought this would have been like this as far as dealing with that sort of transition of, hey, I am family and I do know what I'm talking about and I am here for you. This. All of the other, all of the other sort of conversations, anything there that went maybe differently than you had anticipated. Honestly, mine was quite, quite smooth. So, you know, it could be just because of our small footprint and being our single door operation, you know, out of really 2,000 square feet that we, we never carried a huge staff and we've, I've always considered most of our, our team members more so family members. So, you know, with minimal turnover growing up. So yeah, most of our, our team watched me grow up and when, when I came into more of that leadership role just was a nice smooth transition that, that I never got a pushback. It was just more, it was more so harder on. On me personally. I hate to use the, the term imposter syndrome, but like just, but truly going from, you know, from, you know, growing up in the business, it was always my responsibility to make sure the inventory walls were straight and was the garbage taken out and going from, from that role to an operational role now into an ownership role. It's. It's hard to leave the other stuff behind sometimes. And I always have to check myself when you know, I'm going to check in a shipman and receive something that came in the front door. I'm like, wait, I could be using my time a little bit more so that. I don't know if that answered the question. But yeah, I think everything's on a continuum when we talk about these multi generational businesses. Obviously one of the things for all three of you that I think is unique for coming back in is that in order to make this kind of life change, you had to see a positive future for independent retailers, a positive future for footwear retail in particular. And from that side of things, what do you see down the road and how do you see things from your lens on how you can sort of advance the future in your own particular brand? Abba. Why don't you start off with Abba Dabbas and kind of go through a little bit of vision. You don't have to give us all the detail, but a little bit of vision on sort of that 5 year, 10 year or 20 year vision of where do you see your journey from a leadership perspective and your brand being 10 years from now? Let's say. Yeah, I think we have to focus. Keegan mentioned it, what all these businesses come down to but customer service, the experience that can only happen in store, at least up till now, who knows what VR and everything else will bring. But up till now, in person, analog as it were, human to human, sit and fit. Customer service is pretty. It's going to be hard to replace that even, even as our tech capabilities get more and more detailed because of our nature, like Covid was hard because we got ripped away from one another. The disease, you know, the illness was awful, but it was the isolation that either helped people see different sides of themselves or crushed people depending upon, you know, you are on the, on the extrovert, introvert spectrum. Human to human is vital. And so I think the more that we double and triple down on humanizing business, we've had decades now in our capitalistic structure of dehumanizing people and dehumanizing business. And in all these conversations we forget and maybe to the question also of what's the most kind of surprising thing is realizing that like the business is one thing, but the humans are everything in it. And we talk a lot on the next gen, like HR and just the human back and forth is what most of our time gets spent around or some people's time more than others. And it's because if there is human to human tension or bad customer service experience that defines the entire business. So in whatever ways we can double and triple down on humanizing ourselves, humanizing the business and providing excellent customer service, I think it will set us in a better place for weathering the who knows what storms could be coming. As optimistic as I am and frankly have to be. Otherwise. Otherwise, let's run now. Absolutely. Yesterday. The positive human side, which is what I think many gravitate towards, has to not just cancel out the fear sides of going into business and the fear sides of either not having as big of a business online or not one at all, but the fear of, of making sure that we're doing the best that we can, that we're hitting whatever benchmarks we need to. And I don't think we're going to get higher than those benchmarks unless we give that personalization. Can I add on to that? Yeah, please do. Because I had a couple words written down and experience was one and empathy is the other one in our business. And just to piggyback on what you were saying of the true need for human to human contact and for the people that truly do look for it and want it and strive to find it. Yeah, it's only one thing to get them in the door, then it's our job to actually listen what they have to say. And what did they come into this little shoe store in, in my case to find and like, yeah, I want to give them the best experience as humanly possible and also not just make it seem like a transactional relationship. So you know, ask, ask the follow up question. Let me hear about the details of your vacation that you're going on that you're looking for this sandal for. And that's where I see it. In the next five, 10 to however many years you want to call it, that's never going to go away. Where we're always going to need to have the communication skills to help the people and the products might look different, but the experience and the process in how we do it I think is just how we will set ourselves apart from the rest of whatever you want to call it. Bigger business that's going as digital as possible. Independent footwear I think is just really interesting. Independent retail, I mean, this is the thing, the connections, the human connections, those things really, really bring a stronger business and a healthier future for those. Not everybody wants it, but for those that do, they don't want to do it the other way. You know, they want that connection, and that's it. And then they will travel for that. It's a really interesting thing. Keegan, you know, your grandmother, grandfather started from the garage. You started your business from the garage. They've grown this whole thing. In the business that you run now in 30,000 square feet and all of that sort of stuff, where do you see your business in the next 10 or so years? Not to be repetitive, but very much focusing on everything that Adam and Jake have described. I think that that is the only reason why we're here. For all of our stores, we don't sell a single product that you can't buy online. So why is somebody going to get off their couch or whatever they're doing and come to us to buy this when it takes more time? They have to get in the car and drive. What's the point? It's everything they just said. So I don't think that's going to go out of style anytime soon. The only trend I think that stays in retail is service and selection. So as long as we can keep those cornerstones activated, I'm not scared of the future in the slightest. Are you excited about any of the new things that are coming in the pipeline these days? Any new technologies, any new things that are seemingly exciting? And you're like, oh, we got to look into that one. One? Well, AI, of course, is the hot topic. There's, as you all know, of course, a lot of mundane tasks in retail. And I think I have about one dream a week of how much longer am I going to actually have to fill in all these shoes? Couple times a month, Multiple days of spreadsheets? I'm like, this is going to happen. And I'm eager for that to happen for sure. And just streamlining the processes beyond what you can do without AI, I think is very exciting. Abba, if you had one thing that you could say, you know, now that you're back in the business doing what you're doing, if there's somebody else there that is in the family business and they're starting to contemplate, you know, maybe I want to actually be an owner. Or if they're listening to this podcast, not currently in the family business, and they're thinking, maybe I want to come back to the family business and be an owner, what would one piece of advice be from you, from your perspective on what they should be thinking about that they might not already be? I think knowing yourself as best as you can is very helpful. Knowing what Your own pitfalls are and where your comfort zone is and isn't is very helpful. And you might not know that that's very much to previous mention of experience. That's its own journey. I'd like to think that I don't know myself completely yet. That would be nice. But having a decent sense and then I think as many frank conversations and staying in communication with, if it's your parents or whoever's the current ownership, being able to talk with them. I do feel like I. I wish I had talked more with my parents about where I was mentally on my, on my personal journey of interest. And open communication is going to be important if you go into business. And I continue to wish that I could foster that and maybe have done a few things differently in the past. So knowing that having really good communication skills is going to benefit you all around. So communicating with yourself and with whatever other partners are involved. So if there are any lessons, if you feel like you're not, that you don't have those skill sets honed, that that might be something to look into and check yourself with. I think one of the other things is that there are a lot of parents here that are going to be listening to this as well. And so when we're talking about the parent child relationship, whether it's just the personal one, the family one, or whether it's the business one, you know, the communication structure of that is such an interesting piece on how we're communicating. How are we meeting, what are we discussing? Are we discussing. Are we discussing turkey for Thanksgiving or are we discussing who gets the store and what's the share structure and who's going to take control and all this other stuff. And there they are, different conversations and we're all in a different journey, as you had mentioned, you know, understanding yourself, but your folks need to understand themselves too. And it's all part of this thing. But we want to have. The key thing I took away there, Abba, is we need to keep communicating. And I think in order to push things through the community, if the communication stops, everything stops 100%. Keegan, what about you? Any sort of things that you think, hey, you should really think about this one? I think the why question is the biggest for me. Like life is these are big decisions. We're talking about lifelong decisions with a spectrum of results that could happen and life's just too short to not really analyze that and think deeply about it. Like if you are considering rejoining your family business, why is that? Do they need your help and you're doing it because of that? Are you passionate about it? Do you feel morally obligated? Do you see a good future for yourself? Like why? I think that's always a very key question to ask yourself with any major life decision. Yeah, I think that's awesome. What about you, Jake? Process that, that a big one for me as much as, as I agree with, with Keegan and Abba, those are communication and, and, and your why is what's going to keep you going. But to, to bring it into. Yeah, a little more functional spot is in what, what I'm personally going through a little bit is where are the processes? Is there a handbook? Is there a way to figure it out? Or are they all in the as we term it in Nexon or in the now gen TED and how can we get those out and where can we go and what processes are we going to keep and what are we going to build upon and what do we want to change altogether? So truly that comes down to communication and caring. So you know, it all, it all comes together. But yeah, if you're thinking about coming into it, you need to know at least have a plan of where to go. So that's a big conversation. It's not always an easy one to have or a short one, but yeah, start as quickly as possible and, and don't stop having the conversations. That's, that's, that's my advice because even after it's done like, you know, you, you still have, if you're lucky enough to, to have that past generation still around, always going to be a great consultant and you already know that, that they've cared so deeply about what, what you're getting into currently that yeah, it's, it could just be just a great way to, to keep every, keep the family cohesive and, and, and, and going into the future. I love it. And I know we've talked. Not to put words in your mouth, Jake, but we have definitely talked around process and we've talked also about aligning and assigning accountability, which is this other piece of the puzzle that we talk a lot about as this group. Right? It's like who owns what? It's one thing to have the process, but am I owning this? Are you owning this? Is with somebody on the team owning this, like who owns it and these kind of things. Such big conversations as that transfer from, as we said, the now generation to the next generation. Part of that communication is who owns what. And it's such a big piece because our team needs to know too. Right? Our team needs to know it's like, oh, there's these other people here now and do they have the final say or does mom still have the final say or does dad still have the final say or who, who has a say? And you know, it's, it's, it's an interesting piece in this conversational transfer of process and of accountability and of share structure, all of the different things. It's been an awesome conversation. Always love spending time with the three of you and thanks so much for being here on the footwear retailer podcast. Before we leave, if you could all just kind of go through again what your store is so people can check you out on Instagram or on LinkedIn or Facebook. How anybody, if they want to touch base with you a little bit more after this conversation, can reach you out as well to maybe drop your email address or something like that. So if anybody feels particularly like, oh, I just got to talk to Abba about that or, you know, whatever the case is, that would be awesome too. So Abba, maybe you could start just give us again your business and how to get a hold of you if they have some further questions. Sure. So Abu Dhabbas, which is unique enough to where the Internet hasn't saturated that too deeply. So if you Google Abu Dabas apostrophe S A B B A D A B B A S you will find us. And if that doesn't work, coolshoes.com is our primary URL which dad swiped back in the day as the tech guru. He is my personal email. Abba cool shoes.com happy to talk with anyone. Awesome. How about you, Keegan? Kndshoes.com is where you can check out our business. And my email is Keegan, which is K E E G A N at K and D safety shoes dot com. Great, Jake. Yeah. And yeah, humphreysbootery.com Again, pretty. The Internet also has not hidden us too much at this point. And yeah, on social media, Instagram and Facebook. Luckily we're the only Humphreys bootery out there. So yeah, you could find us there and check out what we're doing. And yeah, my email, jake. Humphriesumphriesbootery.com so yeah, I would love to have any conversation that, that I could. I think we found out that in our next gen group that talking through anything as. As little or big as as we think it is really makes a difference. Yeah, thanks. Thanks Pete and Adam and Keegan, this is a great conversation. Yeah, it was lovely and thank you Pete for having us and for everything you're doing in the footwear industry. You bring a lot of positive energy that I know is appreciated by many, many folks here, here. So thank you. I appreciate that, too, guys. I appreciate all of you. So as we end these podcasts with the. With the phrase that I learned from one of my coaches down the road, make it a great day. Until next time. Bye for now.